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tabs
Feb 6, 2006 3:35:52 GMT -5
Post by ulukai on Feb 6, 2006 3:35:52 GMT -5
Hi Tim, after reading some of your posts it's clear to me, that you will not support tabs as they were in KeyNote. I would like to say, that i will miss this feature very much. Would it be too hard to make it as option? I mean if tabs should work as in KeyNote or as bookmarks (i think this is how you want them to work). And how about other users, you will not miss tabs as they worked in KeyNote? Wish you good luck, will keep an eye on you and novo ulukai
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tabs
Feb 6, 2006 7:23:26 GMT -5
Post by Chris on Feb 6, 2006 7:23:26 GMT -5
I agree, tabs were on of the really useful features of KeyNote. One of the extras that made KeyNote stick out from other similar programs.
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kf2
New Member
Posts: 18
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tabs
Feb 6, 2006 8:31:25 GMT -5
Post by kf2 on Feb 6, 2006 8:31:25 GMT -5
Tim's posts indicate tabs will be in Novo... as I understand it they will be more like filters (I like filters!) but they will be available. Filters are the more powerful way to go.
Kevin
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tabs
Feb 7, 2006 4:00:49 GMT -5
Post by ulukai on Feb 7, 2006 4:00:49 GMT -5
Tim's posts indicate tabs will be in Novo... as I understand it they will be more like filters (I like filters!) but they will be available. Filters are the more powerful way to go. Kevin How about option (in preferences) to use tabs as you say as filters, or as in KeyNote
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kf2
New Member
Posts: 18
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tabs
Feb 7, 2006 6:46:25 GMT -5
Post by kf2 on Feb 7, 2006 6:46:25 GMT -5
Well, any filter implementation without the ability to also use the filter as a folder is only half-baked! Even if there are filter nodes as well as tabs, there should also be folder nodes (ie, you choose what you want in them). Of course, this is my opinion (and last I looked I wasnt coding novo But, for a good quick example of filterable folders you can try Opera's M2 email client. It gives both worlds and does it inherently (ie, you dont need to click an option to change it. It automatically filters AND remembers email you stick in yourself). Kevin
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tabs
Feb 7, 2006 20:50:11 GMT -5
Post by kingsky on Feb 7, 2006 20:50:11 GMT -5
I have to admit, I use tabs as they are in KeyNote quite a lot and would miss the feature if it wasn't in Novo
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tabs
Feb 8, 2006 5:27:41 GMT -5
Post by ulukai on Feb 8, 2006 5:27:41 GMT -5
Tim if you are reading this... i have another question....realease date. Please don't kill me for this ;D , I really don't mean anything specific. But as i'm not a coder, i don't have a clue how long can it take to write such a program.
So I'm asking if it's matter of months, half year... or year.
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tabs
Feb 12, 2006 4:05:30 GMT -5
Post by spokesman001 on Feb 12, 2006 4:05:30 GMT -5
filters sounds like what InfoSelect does: One gigantic database and you can "select" a portion of it to "associate" with a tab. For me, it didn't work anywhere near as well as Keynote's tabs with their own dedicated trees. One problem is that I kept having to scroll through the entire database on the tree. Dedicated tabs/trees eliminated all that.
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tabs
Feb 15, 2006 11:35:06 GMT -5
Post by Tim Penrose on Feb 15, 2006 11:35:06 GMT -5
I understand the value of tabs. The above comments tell me that its a feature that is extremely important to some. I am using the comments posted on this forum as a tool in refining my thinking as I am implementing features. I have not yet implemented the “bookmarks” functionality.
Please tell me what you think of this idea:
You have a “master” navigation tree. When you want to create a new tab, you right click on the node in the master tree, and select “Open Tab View”. This creates a Tab View that holds a subset of the master tree, with the selected node appearing as the root of the tree. The text placed on the Tab itself would be the node name. The Tab Views would function exact as KeyNote Tabs do today, having completely separate trees. The difference would be that each of the Tab Views is actually just a “view” of the data that appears also in the master tree. The Tab View would then look and behave exactly like a KeyNote Tab. To close the Tab View, right click the tab and select “Close Tab View”. The Tab Views would persist from session to session.
RELEASE DATE: Don't worry, I'm not offended by the question. I think its perfectly natural for people to be curious... Please see the “February 15, 2006 Status Update”.
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tabs
Feb 16, 2006 4:26:34 GMT -5
Post by ulukai on Feb 16, 2006 4:26:34 GMT -5
You have a “master” navigation tree. When you want to create a new tab, you right click on the node in the master tree, and select “Open Tab View”. This creates a Tab View that holds a subset of the master tree, with the selected node appearing as the root of the tree. The text placed on the Tab itself would be the node name. The Tab Views would function exact as KeyNote Tabs do today, having completely separate trees. The difference would be that each of the Tab Views is actually just a “view” of the data that appears also in the master tree. The Tab View would then look and behave exactly like a KeyNote Tab. To close the Tab View, right click the tab and select “Close Tab View”. The Tab Views would persist from session to session. This really sounds interesting... and could probably satisfy hard-core tabs users too . Hmm.... can't decide what i would like more, this new approach or the old keynote system (and this is already good sign, i really love tabs like they work in keynote)... but i have some weird feeling that this new approach could be really good. After 20mins of thinking: Well, thing is that you can never satisfy everybody, so if this new approach would be some good compromise, it would be completely ok for me (also i think that old keynote style is simpler). But if you will choose this "new approach", it would be really important (as you already said) that the tabs are persistant (saved in the file). In this case, another small feature would be helpful - If you could say to the master tree, that it should be "docked", or aligned on the right side of the tab panel, so tabs (created from nodes) would be always aligned on the left side and this mastertree on the right. And if you would have more tabs, that can't fit into the tab panel, those who can't fit would become hidden on the right side, but mastertab/tree would be still visible there, so this one wouldn't become hidden. Hmm... this could probably work only if mastertree would have it's default tab. Ow yes... it would be very useful if this mastertree would actually have it's own tab on the tab bar. I hope you can understand how i mean all this EDIT: Really like the way you are doing novo - that you are willing to listen to opinions/ideas of us, users.
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tabs
Feb 17, 2006 0:43:05 GMT -5
Post by spokesman001 on Feb 17, 2006 0:43:05 GMT -5
Take a look at InfoSelect. It is a fantastic product ... for somebody, I'm sure. It has literally EVERYTHING you could think of. Problem is, for me, it was too fantastic to be any good. However, there are some great ideas in there. Unlimited number of floating calendars is one of them. But the tabs were just portions of a big master tree. You could designate which nodes appeared under a tab. If you didn't designate, a node appeared just on the giant tree. Then, if you needed that node, you were scrolling through hundreds (or thousands!) of nodes on the giant tree trying to find the one you needed. Big mess. KeyNote was so simple. For me, anyway. And I recognize that others may like the InfoSelect model better. Sounds like what you are suggesting is a little different than the InfoSelect model. Sounds like you designate "A" node to be a tab. But what if you want more than one node to be under the tab? And why not have the ability to name tabs? KeyNote was so familiar. It was the same as my notebook in high school. One tab for history, one for English, one for Science, etc. Then, under history, I could put all kinds of subheadings such as: wars or presidents, or, I could make a node for each century or each decade. What you have suggested (if I understand you correctly) would take many tabs to cover the same information. Why? You have so many other great ideas. Leave the KeyNote tabs as they are and spend your time implementing the improvements. Please.
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tabs
Feb 17, 2006 4:39:04 GMT -5
Post by Chris on Feb 17, 2006 4:39:04 GMT -5
I agree with "spokesman001". The KeyNote tab concept was simple and intuitive. It helped to distinguish different realms like job related issues or private issues. You could treat different tabs differently: Share them with another PC, or make a read-only copy on one PC etc. If everything is one big tree, you cannot separate it as nicely.
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tabs
Feb 17, 2006 6:51:07 GMT -5
Post by ulukai on Feb 17, 2006 6:51:07 GMT -5
If everything is one big tree, you cannot separate it as nicely. That's a point too.
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kf2
New Member
Posts: 18
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tabs
Feb 20, 2006 13:27:43 GMT -5
Post by kf2 on Feb 20, 2006 13:27:43 GMT -5
One point that needs to be brought up: we all (with the exception of Tim) are making predictions and analysis based on what we think Tim meant and how we envision his concept to work. I'm holding comments until I actually can use the implementation. Tim has heard proponents of both sides... let's not jump to conclusions like the TV "analysts" do all the time.
Tim: at some point people are going to need to see the result to help make constructive comments. I totally understand your desire to have the base in good working order, but an alpha would be nice!
Key point: don't get all excited by what is said here... holding Novo to exactly the same structure as Keynote will only stop innovation. On the other hand, a blind leap away is not innovation. Let's see what actually happens before getting worked up.
Kevin
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tabs
Feb 24, 2006 15:08:14 GMT -5
Post by jeanchristophe on Feb 24, 2006 15:08:14 GMT -5
I agree Keynote is the only one performing for me because of its simplicity, reliability and the use of the multi tab trees. Keep these principles as a base.
Jean-Christophe
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